Curse

The Acolyte · Nov 22, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

I'm not crazy about this idea. If you want to use a weapon for damage and have that be one of your primary attack methods, make a W/E (or W/caster class)...there are some killer combos with this class setup, especially with earth magic. Otherwise, if you are a caster your primary method of attack should be casting. The only reason my ele uses a hand held weapon is if I've drained my energy (usually because the fight is long, but occasionally because I mis-managed my energy) OR if I've cast Mark of Rod on an enemy and am making em burn while my mana regens. That's it...otherwise, a weapon for a caster is totally unnecessary.

Acolyte Devathi

Weezer_Blue · Nov 22, 2005, 08:57 PM // 20:57

First of all, I've never seen the EQ AS combo as effective, and certainly not the W/E Hammer Knockdowons and Aftershocks. Secondly, it would not make my character more effective, as you so sardonicly imply. And I certainly am not trying to make it so I don't have to "think". (most of the thinking is done before the build is in use, anyway).

Using caster spells that require melee range without a caster weapon that promotes melee range is a bad idea. Trying to stay in range with a staff just doesn't work - your enemies move too much, and, especially if they move during your cast time, your spell or combination of spells will lose it's effect. While this will still happen with a melee caster weapon, it would speed up the reaction as the controls don't allow you to keep up as well as an automatic follow system would.
However, there is an easy way around this: Just use a sword, right? No. Because then not only do you lose base weapon damage for if you're low on energy, you (and much more importantly) lose the upgrades that could come with your weapon, and you lose the weapon mods as well (if I remember correctly, they're still reliant upon attribute). Acolyte missed the point by a long shot as well. If I don't want any warrior skills at all... Why would I take a warrior weapon. Even worse: Why would I sacrafice my primary class for one?

Weezer_Blue · Nov 23, 2005, 08:40 PM // 20:40

I think with the new contest coming out, it would be a nice time for new weapons... Especially since A.Net said so themselves.

jesh · Nov 23, 2005, 09:03 PM // 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilenceWeaver

this would definitely be quite fun.
im also going to agree with arcanus that this would make my IW baby possibly more powerful or fun to play.
while the attack might not be the same as a sword, the extra energy/mods on the caster weapon might offset that and create a new type of IW mesmer that could say, be an illusionist and an IW (really all u need for IW is IW itself, flurry, distortion, and IoW, and maybe say heal sig) that would leave 2-3 slots that could be used for illusion stuff.
anywho, getting off topic, /signed in support of caster melee waepons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arcanis the Omnipotent

I'm thinking this would make Mesmer IW builds alot more interesting.

Weapon power has nothing to do with IW, I can't believe how many people have said this. A 3-4 shortsword works just as well.

And Weezer, you still get the effect of weapon upgrades even if you don't meet the attribute requirements. Hence the value of the Henge of Denravi swords with +20% enchant mods.

Elena · Nov 23, 2005, 10:48 PM // 22:48

/signed oh how i'd love to see my N/R to fight side by side swining a schyte at monsters and having his wolf bite its leg *wanders off in a dream world*

SilenceWeaver · Nov 23, 2005, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilenceWeaver

while the attack might not be the same as a sword

my bad, i meant attack speed, i assume the caster waepons would have the same attack speed as wands, which would be less than swords.
ya see for IW attack=attack speed so i was just not paying attention.

Weezer_Blue · Nov 24, 2005, 07:25 PM // 19:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

And Weezer, you still get the effect of weapon upgrades even if you don't meet the attribute requirements. Hence the value of the Henge of Denravi swords with +20% enchant mods.

I stand corrected... However you'd still lose out on the upgrades that PvP weapons come with.

Mayar third Keeper · Nov 24, 2005, 09:44 PM // 21:44

/signed

Chev of Hardass · Nov 25, 2005, 05:37 PM // 17:37

It still sounds like you want to remove some player skill from the equation.

How about those staffs for my trapping ranger friends?

Player skill over time spent. This is not a button pushing game, you are required to think.

/not signed

dawnrain · Nov 25, 2005, 05:53 PM // 17:53

Perhaps a more equitable suggestion is to have the developers modify the "follow" ability so that it can be used on enemies as well. Have this ability as a secondary action (primary action is attack) that can be triggered with a keyboard shortcut, comparable to the way the primary action is triggered with the space bar.

Hannibel · Nov 25, 2005, 06:07 PM // 18:07

/not signed

melee weapons should be with melee characters, that's what they made them for, they made them have advantages that they could use these type's of things.

jesh · Nov 25, 2005, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

I stand corrected... However you'd still lose out on the upgrades that PvP weapons come with.

Yeah, it's basically +5 energy and 1 upgrade instead of a 10% recharge. I still think I'd rather the first, though.

Prepatch, I would have liked a staff head that made my damage physical.. now that Mark of Pain does nothing without a snare, I don't see that much use for it.

Weezer_Blue · Nov 25, 2005, 07:44 PM // 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hannibel

/not signed

melee weapons should be with melee characters, that's what they made them for, they made them have advantages that they could use these type's of things.

It's just about the same thing with trappers and beast masters. They simply aren't given the tools for the job so they end up using tools they have no use for. How useful can a staff possibly be to a trapper who has no stats in it? Where is the gnarled staff of wilderness survival or the whip of beast mastery with special attributes that help these players? In the same sense, where is the monk's kunlun bamboo staff or the mesmer's rapier? I don't want them to be useful with melee attacks such as Eviscerate or the like - I want them to be fit tools for those who need them. A.net has cornered all casters who need melee range (for instance, Holy Strike) to use weapons they have no attribute in and thus are much less effective. 20 percent less effective, actually.

As for the follow on enemies, it would also work... but it wouldn't be as cool

darkdragon99 · Nov 25, 2005, 08:30 PM // 20:30

how about war staffs you use as melee weapons every caster class can have one a bloody war staff for a blood necro and so on.

Schorny · Nov 25, 2005, 08:55 PM // 20:55

What has the right tool for the right job to do with thinking?

Comeone guys. A melee caster weapon won't be more powerful as ranged caster weapon, in fact it would deal less damage, because of kiting. The damage will no where near that of a warrior. And you can't use attack skills with it.

It is simple a new option. You don't have to grind for it or have to spend 1000 hours for it. It is just a weapon for casters that need to stay in melee range.

It is no threat to balance nor will it favor time spend over player skill. Please post serious reason why this is a bad idea...

Chev of Hardass · Nov 25, 2005, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

It is no threat to balance nor will it favor time spend over player skill.

One word.........

Orders

jesh · Nov 25, 2005, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Yes, send all your casters to the front lines with melee weapons and orders. Sounds like a total winning strategy to me.

By the way, you realize you can already do that, if you're derranged enough? Caster classes still don't have IAS skills, and there aren't any melee attacks they could use to even make it worthwhile.

darkdragon99 · Nov 25, 2005, 10:10 PM // 22:10

it's not replacing the old ones it's adding a new one for the close range nukers and touch skills you know caster do have melee range spells.

Hannibel · Nov 25, 2005, 11:15 PM // 23:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weezer_Blue

It's just about the same thing with trappers and beast masters. They simply aren't given the tools for the job so they end up using tools they have no use for. How useful can a staff possibly be to a trapper who has no stats in it? Where is the gnarled staff of wilderness survival or the whip of beast mastery with special attributes that help these players? In the same sense, where is the monk's kunlun bamboo staff or the mesmer's rapier? I don't want them to be useful with melee attacks such as Eviscerate or the like - I want them to be fit tools for those who need them. A.net has cornered all casters who need melee range (for instance, Holy Strike) to use weapons they have no attribute in and thus are much less effective. 20 percent less effective, actually.

As for the follow on enemies, it would also work... but it wouldn't be as cool

rangers aren't spell casters, beast mastery skills aren't spells, traps aren't spells, spells are for casting, spell casters cast spells that's why they're called spell casters, staffs and wands are made for casting spells, melee weapons for casters.... traps and beast skills were made not be spells, because rangers aren't spellcasting class they're classified more as melee class, since there attacks arent spells.

Chev of Hardass · Nov 26, 2005, 01:46 AM // 01:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jesh

Yes, send all your casters to the front lines with melee weapons and orders. Sounds like a total winning strategy to me.

By the way, you realize you can already do that, if you're derranged enough? Caster classes still don't have IAS skills, and there aren't any melee attacks they could use to even make it worthwhile.

Simply, your IWAY team will have it's Necros adding to the already insane damage (and gaining health), and your Monks will as well. Then you will call for "Nerf" and cry when it takes weeks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdragon99

it's not replacing the old ones it's adding a new one for the close range nukers and touch skills you know caster do have melee range spells.

Then you better learn to get into Melee range. Maybe you would like a circle to show you exactly where your AoE spells will take effect? Or a order generator for your skill slot so that you can mash. I don't know where mashing buttons means player skill?

For those of your arguing that Warriors have Melee weapons and casters should too: Go play a warrior some time. To be a sufficent IWAY warrior you only have to press "T" and spacebar. To be an effective warrior in any non-warrior heavy build you need to be constantly aware of your positioning and the positioning of your targets. A good warrior will use the arrows, or some directional control (including angle of attack), not just target spacebar combo.

Go mash buttons somewhere else.